Advice please

Hi

does any one have any advice on how one can gain some income from photography work so I can reduce my dayjob to part time.

I heard getting a intern placement at a news paper is a good start..??

any feed back on this


thanx

newspapers = long hard days = dogsbody when you start out. you can be lucky but not often. depends what area you want to do. weddings, portraits, fashion, commercial?
Best thing to do is contact studios/photographers. assisting is a good start. trailing around after wedding togs is another (how i started)
starting out will be hard work and you wont shoot much unless its weddings.
i was an assistant for 3 years or so and learnt so much from it. lighting, props, client liaison, suppliers, etc. but also had to get lunch, make tea/coffee etc

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Thanx

the hard work is expected...

thanx for your advice its very helpful

Hi Ruma;

Hope you don't mind me adding onto your question but I similarly would love one day to come away from the day job- my add on is have I left it to late at 28??

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28 is not too late. 38 is not to late. It depends if you can live on the reduced income you will more than likely recieve as an assistant.

Also...
You will face many rejections from established 'togs that you approach. DO NOT BE PUT OFF BY THIS!. Eventually someone will be willing to use you to help them.

If you are good enough and know you can cut the mustard then keep at it. never give up and you will get a break, I promise you.

Buy Professional Photographer magazine, - the last couple of issues have given great detail on getting into stock work etc and the June issue helps with how to sell photography on line..

I am in my fourties & due to the NHS destroying my leg during surgery, I am now in the process of trying to make some of my living at least from my tog work....

Pete

(ps TCO do you need a tea boy?)

In all seriousness Pete business is good at the moment. But it changes so quickly. When i reach a level when i am starting to turn work away then i will need another body. Watch this space mate and keep those fingers crossed.

Stock photography is ok but you have to have a ton of images (especially with Alamy) to get any sort of return. If you check the return stats on Alamy you'll see what i mean.
Its all well and nice getting money from time to time but in reality you need a decent and consistent wage to live on. This means fast turnaround work.
When I shoot horse events or canine events I am paid when orders are placed, on the day. When shooting mum and toddlers, playgroups or family work i am paid on delivery of images. When I shoot wine stock work or commercial work that is based around larger companies advertising/specific profile images then I can be waiting up to 90 days before payment.

The economy is obviously changing and my main wine merchant is looking like it will fold up soon; I have not done any work for them for a while now. I thought it was through being undercut but it is simply a case of lack of funds. Dogs and babies are coming at me from all angles at the moment. The money is never questioned ( i am cheaper than Venture...plus I actually give a damn about the customer..just my opinion).
This could all change next month and I will be scratching around for work. Its then when i'll jump ship and do a few hours a week for a local printing firm to pay the bills.

I think for Andy eosNrs it is different. He works for a studio which has overheads larger than mine. He works his nuts off and comes up with the goods but the company take a huge chunk of the revenue that he creates. I am sure he'll explain how things are different for his line of work.

I used to work with a pro tog years ago, doing prints for her on my Durst, and she was a shooter for Horse and Hound mag. She said " do it for the love and not the money"
Not easy to get completely in that frame of mind when you are over ten grand in debt

Happy days!

Im really glad i found this thread, and its answered a few of my questions that have been rushing around my head.

I am a self employed dog groomer by day, (business run from home) but during the summer months, most weekends i am at dog obedience shows doing the photography which has been mostly very busy, but i would love to do animal photography instead of the grooming (which i have to admit is busy) as every one wants a nice clean non smelly mut these days! but my heart is in photography, in reality i would love to become a wildlife tog but its sooooo hard to become known in this genre, hundreds of us chasing that dream, and with family committments, dogs etc i cant keep rushing off to Alaska to photograph Penguins or South Africa for a tiger shoot, so domestic animals will do nicely..BUT.. i have advertised, got cards, posters etc etc, cant say i have'nt had customers, i have but, it will be weeks before anything else crops up, im must be doing something very wrong with my advertising etc, i dont think my prices are steep by any means, in fact i make very little profit, Tco you mention you dont have any quibbles when prices are mentioned, well i do, at dog shows i charge £20 for a A4 size print fully mounted ready to frame, is this too much?? people do tend to ummm and aaar, but where do you reach that balance? ie steady flow of customers and a little profit?
I have had lots of exhibitions and given a few talks on wildlife/animal photography this year but if i put a landscape picture amongst my show, i can guarantee that sells, and the animal ones dont, i think its that landscapes look better on peoples walls than a picture of a horse fly or Harris Hawk!

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"Take only pictures, Leave only footprints, kill only time"



www.bevbarkerphotos.com
www.k9imageworld.com

Well Bev the pooch shooting has only really been part of my income in the last 7 or 8 months. I have done equine work for nearly 14 years on and off (odd how I never post any really?!) I shot dog agility for about two years and dog portraiture within the last year.
The shows yield good money but to be honest it can be a pain in the botty and everything is on the fly. No flash allowed and if the light is crap its a struggle to get top grade images dog after dog after dog. People now want prints on site and unless you have a decent sub dye printer and someone to run the front end while you shoot, you are better off going for the portrait sessions.
By chance a friend of mine owns a grooming parlour. Unbeknown to me, they had advertised on local radio that they were having an open day at the parlour. The main attraction was 'award winning equine/canine photographer' Andrew James. They did all this behind my back and showed me the flyers TWO DAYS before the shoot. A bit naughty really because I have no awards to speak of but i have had many images printed in magazines over the years. Anyway...
I went along with it. I was at the venue for 8 hrs. I was shooting for about 5 hrs. I offered only full body or standard head/shoulder pooch portraits. To be honest I was so busy with Mum and toddler work and bottle shots, that i treated it as kind of a joke (naughty Tco!).
As a favour to my mate i kept prices low. £10-8x6 £15-10x8 £25-12x10 and £35-16x12...like I say it was a favour and prices very low.
I never offer frames..NEVER OFFER FRAMES. Its an extra hastle and to be honest i have never had any trouble with it. I have a good relationship with two Cornish framers and I point the clients in that direction. After costs for fuel, food and prints I came away £765-0 clear. Not bad for something I treated as a joke.
From that one day, word of mouth spread and dogs have become a large portion of my income. I shoot private agility sessions as well as the shows. Lately location shoots for dogs are becoming popular. I take the client to a place which is pleasing to the eye...beach..forest..whatever. I shoot, do a panoramic crop, sling a load of white around it and get it printed big (20x30 or 20x16) and charge them accordingly.
People are more willing to pay money up front for their dogs and cats than they are their kids!
Don't think big prices. Leave that to the studios with the bigger overheads. If you give them quality (which you have in huge lumps my friend...HUGE lumps of quality) for a realistically affordable price...then they will return and recommend. Thats the key...at least it worked for me.

Advertise an open day, shoot cheap, give clean simple but clear images and deliver them promptly and people remember. I can only speak for myself bev.
To be totally open about my income (though hugely in debt! don't ask why )
In a bad week I will make £150 quid, this is when i will go and earn the extra loot needed at the printers. On a good week I can do £1200, all profit. Last week I cleared just over £1100. About 30% was dog work. Next week could be crap again.
If you want any specific details Bev just ask chum. i will help you if I can. I owe you one for the macro thing xx


ALSO!!!!!

Before some folk think wow i'm going to make a shed load of cash doing this...I feel I should put it into perspective.
I have long periods of bad weeks. The aim is to get the good weeks occuring more and more. Also my wife does not work, we have a young son etc.... The last few years income varies wildly per annum. A low year is around the 25k mark. A good one is around 38k mark I have had higher and lower and don't forget this is not just income from photography. You more you earn the more you get banged for TAX. The early part of this year was really very very bad. To the point where I was going to sell up. I am now trying to make up lost ground with current work. At present I am full time shooting but as I said before it can change in an instant..

I'm hoping Andy Eos Nrs and Andy Newbloke will add to this thread as they earn money from shooting and their story is again different. I know nrs has added already but something more in depth would enlighten people further to the reality of full time shooting. Also Genese makes a living and again it is different to the rest of us. Another angle to view from.

Many many thanks Tco for this its a help, and eye opener, i realise i wont become a millionairess doing photography and the overdraft will always be looming over our heads, (way of the wallet..i mean worlds) these days, im lucky that my hubby is a grafter and keeps the wolves from the door so to speak.
I think your suggestion of an open day is a great idea and i will get the wheels in motion for this asap!
I did supply "Your Dogs" magazine with images for quite sometime but as you say it only gave a very small come back like £15-£20 an image used,and then dried up to something like every other month, but i was chuffed my images were being used mind.
Our agility shows are far and few around here, not to say people dont do it but the shows are often held several hours away although i was prepared to travel, but the photographer Nick Ridley does most of the agility shows, which to be honest is the bigger earner from obedience.

Well, many thanks again friend, (and you owe nothing!!) i may be on your ear for more help yet???)and as you say lets hope others will join in this thread and give their thoughts on this.

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"Take only pictures, Leave only footprints, kill only time"



www.bevbarkerphotos.com
www.k9imageworld.com